Hello, and welcome to The Quiet Living Room, a podcast by Quiet Social Club, where we discuss and explore ideas on how to live and work well in a digital world. Every two weeks, we invite industry experts, entrepreneurs, scientists, and inspiring voices to share their stories, knowledge, and wisdom. My name is Ileana, and I will be your host in today's episode. My guest today is Kenneth Schlencker, founder and CEO of Opal, the number one screen time app. Prior to founding Opal, Kenneth held roles as a product manager and founder of a series of ventures, among others Stellar based, the software studio and product consultancy, and the online marketplace artist. He founded Opal in 2020 with a mission to help 1 billion people focus better day to day so they can accomplish their dreams. Thank you so much, Kenneth, for being here today.
Kenneth: Thank you, Iliana for the invitation.
Iliana: Kenneth, you spent the majority of your career working in tech roles and tech companies. What inspired you to create an app that helps people spend less time on their phones?
Kenneth: I have this conviction that in ten years time, people will be as conscious of their screen time as they are of their diet today. And we're seeing this shift where we spend most of our lives online, whether it's on a mobile phone or a computer or a connected TV. And one of the better ways to improve people's sense of well being and productivity is to help them manage their screen time. What I've come across working in tech is tech can allow us to do great and beautiful things, and we all believe in this, but I truly think that we need help to manage this time and make it beneficial to us. So that's really what inspired me, and it's been a very long process of maturing this idea over the years until finally we decided in 2020 to create Opal, which is a screen time management application.
Iliana: How does the app work and what benefits users can derive from using it?
Kenneth: Opal is an iPhone app, a screen time management app that also works on your Chrome browser. So once you download it, we're going to help you be much more conscious about how you use your devices and then develop healthy habits when it comes to managing your screen time. One of the most popular cases is work hours. So during maybe 9 to 5 p.m. Monday to Friday when you work, we're going to encourage you to think about what's distracting to you: Is it TikTok? Maybe Instagram, maybe YouTube? For some people, it might be the news. And then we're going to help you limit your use of these apps in a way that can truly change behavior. We've done a lot of work to figure out how people can change their behavior. So for some people, you're going to be able to block them out completely and say, I'm not going to be able to access these apps, so they should be completely blocked. Or for others, it's more about being slightly intentional in how you use them. So when you try to open the app, we're going to ask you: “Do you really want to use this app? How long do you want to use it?” Think about your intention and you're going to be able to use it, but you're going to be able to use it intentionally. And what Opal is today is the leading screen time app on the market. We have 500,000 members globally and users that are saving on average 2 hours a day in screen time and report that they have better wellbeing and that they're less distracted.
Iliana: Can you share some stories from users that have shown you: “This is why we created the app!”?
Kenneth: Yes, there's a whole diversity of stories that I find very interesting from the busy sort of knowledge worker, remote working professional who is able to work much more efficiently and then shorten their work days. One of the things that technology does is it kind of breaks down all of the barriers that used to exist before when we had an office life and when we had a much more sort of structured day. So people can work at any time. They can work the moment they wake up. They open their emails to the moment late at night, they're answering slack. So what Opal can do is bring a little bit more structure to your day so you actually can shorten your work days. That's one story that we hear consistently. Then we have a whole range of people who have different kinds of attention deficit disorders, whether diagnosed by a medical professional or people who feel that they have these issues and they're on the path to getting a diagnosis. And so with these people report is lower stress, better ability to focus. And then we have another interesting news case, I think, which is people who have a couple or family life and kind of struggle to be present when they're around others because they might be checking social media or their work. And that report that this has really changed the way they relate to others.
Iliana: At what point in your life did you realize that this was a topic that really needed addressing? That as a digital society, we need to find a better balance with technology and our devices?
Kenneth: First of all, I struggle myself with the ability to focus. I think many people both love and hate technology. I think it allows to do great things, but I also feel like it's taking away part of me sometimes. So it's something that I've thought about for a long time. But then what really came apparent, I think, is in recent years, how now it touches everyone. I look at people who are in their 60s or even seventies today and their relationship to technology when they discover something like Facebook, or when they discover that they can suddenly Google anything at the dinner table instantly to get an answer. Or people who are having their first devices, who are preteens now twelve year olds and discovering TikTok for the first time. So it's really sort of become this broad topic. And I've come to realize that a lot of the issues we're seeing today in society, whether it's loneliness, whether it's the relationship to the truth and the relationship to struggles that democracy is having in Western societies, I think they all kind of come down to our ability to manage these 8-10 hours a day we spent in front of screens, how we consume information. I think generally most people live in the states of sort of over consumption of information and aren't we able to process that? And that's causing all sorts of issues. So I think there wasn't a specific moment in time, but it's been sort of 15 years of observing things kind of pile up and take us to where we are today, where most people are overwhelmed with information and are looking for ways to deal with this.
Iliana: If you could have anything come true, what would for you, be the ideal role of technology in our lives and how would we create technology that is aligned with our human interests?
Kenneth: I think the ideal is that the technology we use, the consumer technology we use every day, starts with our needs and not the app developer's needs or the advertiser's needs. So what that means is very quickly, like, when I wake up in the morning, what do I need? I probably don't need to check my emails or to check the latest social posts. And so I think it's technology that deeply understands what I need as a person and helps facilitate that. I think that a lot of the technology we use - and I'm not the only one to say this when you look at Tristan Harris's work with Humane Tech, developing these humane technology principles, for example - whether it's an iPhone and Android or the computers have been built without necessarily thinking about what humans need, but more about what developers need or advertisers need. I think we can shift this around, and I think we can build technology to think about what actually humans need. How can we actually get it to them in a less disruptive way? That's the second piece, which is being as uninterruptive as possible, so as little interruption as possible. Maybe when you're focusing on something, whether it's being with someone in person, maybe technology can recognize that, like you're actually with your partner right now with your friends, let's not interrupt that person. Or whether you're deeply focused on creative work or actual production, being as less interruptive as possible and helping promote flow rather than break flow. So these are just two ideas that I have, but I think there's a whole world to be reinvented here about human design, principles and technology. And my ideas are just as good as the ideas of anyone in the community. And I think we have a lot of work to build on this.
Iliana: What would be your suggestion or action plan for someone who's still struggling to find their balance between their online and their offline life?
Kenneth: I think the first thing is to get off the treadmill. So we live in this constantly connected world, and a lot of us are just in this cycle of being constantly connected, constantly thinking. We just organized the first Global day of Unplugging and basically, which is a digital fast or digital break for 24 hours, where the reason I think this is interesting is it forces us to get off the treadmill and re-experience what it's like to be without technology, without distraction, and perhaps a little bit bored also. But what it helps do is it helps rewire us to think about what good habits do. I want to develop a bit of a reset to think about going forward. What do I want to do? And so what I would suggest to people is start with this. Try to figure out if you can take a break for even a few hours from technology to re-experience what it's like. And then I think once you get out of it, you'll be in a much better place to think about, what kind of habits do I want to build in the future?
Iliana: What is your view on FOMO ? We all experience FOMO in different ways. It could be struggling to log off after work, it could be teenagers wanting to be online to speak to their friends. There's so many different cases of FOMO, and I'm sure this applies to your users as well. What do you say to someone who's worried about missing out when they go offline or block certain apps?
Kenneth: Yeah, absolutely. And there's even some feelings of panic that we try to alleviate sometimes. But people who decide to use the app and then their social apps are blocked for extra hours and then they have remorse, so they have a panic moment of like: “Oh, actually what if something urgent happens? What if all of a sudden a friend needs me?” And I think that that's one of the most pernicious aspects of, honestly, the people who build this intentionally or unintentionally. It's like everything is packaged into one device, funny cat videos or videos on TikTok, as well as maybe the urgent phone call that will save someone's lives. And so there's a lot of anxiety. But I think that, first of all, emergencies are very rare. They can happen, but they're much rarer than we think. And when it comes to FOMO in particular, yes, there's all sorts of exciting things that happen, but we're not able to experience those great things unless we are centered and we're not an information overload. So in a way, you can think of this as like, I might miss out on a few things, but when I come out of it, I'm going to be a lot more available and ready to fully enjoy the things that come up later. And so it's very hard and we all get it. I get it! When I don't check in social media, then I check social media again, whether it's Twitter or LinkedIn for work things or Instagram and social cultural things, it's amazing to see all this potential. But I think it's important to say: “Well, I can't really enjoy these things unless I'm ready for them and I need to put myself in a place where I'm ready to experience these things fully and benefit from them fully.” So a little bit like think of rest, if you will, as an investment for your future and maybe that's the way of thinking about it positively.
Iliana: How do you think we can find a balance between rest and our quest to get things done and productivity, especially living in a world where we could be doing something at all times of the day?
Kenneth: Yeah, I think it's something I've told the people that I've worked with as well like in my team, for example, it's a bit of reframing to say rest is productive. Rest is what will make you productive in the future. So it's a little bit like the difference between making money and then spending it immediately on something that is consumable versus investing it for the future. Rest is something that you do that will make you better after. And it's very challenging because that's one of the things that technology does that is difficult, which is because you can do anything at any point of time with your phone or computer now and the internet and remote work and all these things. You have this guilt when you take a moment off because you're saying, well, I could be writing the next blog post or creating the next app or creating the next event that will make my career success or make my business success. But again, if you decide not to do this and if you decide to rest, you're actually putting yourself up for success in the future. Whereas if you try to optimize every minute and every hour of the day to produce something, you're actually compromising your future. So I think reframing that idea of rest is important and seeing rest as productive is very helpful. What I do personally, I try to impose some structure in my days as much as I can. So one of the things I do is I really feel separation in the evening, no tech, typically after 10:00 p.m. I have my devices away and try not to use them first thing in the morning as well. And then on weekends I typically take a break for 24 hours from any sort of work or social apps. I will still use tech to get around on weekends for Google Maps or whatever. I need WhatsApp or text to communicate with friends or family. But I'll try to get away from really sort of intense information apps and social media and work and I find that when I do this, I'm able to do more the next day. So it's really something that when you experience it, you also you feel that it's investing in your future productivity.
Iliana: What is a recent feature you released that you are particularly excited about?
Kenneth: We've introduced this new feature called Live Events where an event organizer like you can invite others to unplug for a set period of time together. And the way it works is it's a little bit like a Facebook event where you see people attend, and you know that they're also blocking their distracting apps at that time. So you feel this kind of accountability with one another and you can support one another and and do this together. And so we've done this for the first time for the Global Day of Unplugging. And it was the first thing that we had over 380 people who, for an entire 24 hours were unplugged, which is great as a first start and some positive feedback. And we're looking to do a lot more of these with different organizers that are hosting, you know, even small events or larger events to get people to whether it's study together, whether it's work together, whether it's just like time off in weekends to experience what it's like and develop healthier habits.