Julia Kounlavong is the founder of Unwind your Mind and one of Germany's most prominent voices when it comes to actively shaping the future of work. Her mission is clear: to transform the way we view stress, wellbeing and to bring more humanity into the working world. We invited Julia on the podcast to discuss her thoughts on wellbeing in a digital world and how we can bring our authentic selves to work.
Together, we answer questions like:
Find out more about Julia and connect with her here.
Find out more about Unwind your Mind here.
Julia Kounlavong is the founder of Unwind your Mind and one of Germany's most prominent voices when it comes to actively shaping the future of work. Her mission is clear: to transform the way we view stress, wellbeing and to bring more humanity into the working world. We invited Julia on the podcast to discuss her thoughts on wellbeing in a digital world and how we can bring our authentic selves to work.
Together, we answer questions like:
Find out more about Julia and connect with her here.
Find out more about Unwind your Mind here.
[00:00:00.570] - Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to The Quiet Living Room, a podcast by Quiet Social Club, where we discuss and explore ideas on how to live and work well in the digital world. Every two weeks we invite industry experts, entrepreneurs, scientists and inspiring voices to share their stories, knowledge and wisdom. My name is Alana and I will be your host in today's episode. My guest today is Julia Kounlavong. She's an employer brand strategist for companies with over ten years of experience, founder of the mental health education and coaching platform Unwind Your Mind, and a prominent voice for the future of work movement in Germany. She recently finished the techstars incubator. Program in Berlin, all the while being a top finalist at the Miss Germany competition for women who take responsibility in shaping the future of their country. Needless to say, I'm thrilled to have her with me today to talk about well being and the future of work and our society. Julia, thanks so much for being here.
[00:00:57.750] - Speaker 2
Thanks for inviting me. Thanks for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here.
[00:01:03.570] - Speaker 1
Julia, tell us a little bit more about your journey into the wellbeing at work space. You started off as an employer brand strategist consultant. You did a yoga teacher training. How did you get interested in the topic of well being at work?
[00:01:17.050] - Speaker 2
It's kind of funny a little bit because I always have been working a lot. Like I don't know anything about boundaries. You can throw things at me and I'm like, yeah, okay, let's do it, right? And I always have been putting work above myself, unfortunately, but in the end it led to the fact that in between jobs I had over 400 overtime hours. This is a thing in Germany. I know it's not everywhere the same in the rest of the world, but yeah, I had a lot of overtime and accumulated and then decided, okay, hey, what can I do with that, right? And I went on the journey to become a yoga teacher. Not to teach, but to just develop, to grow. And I then discovered it's actually really interesting because when I started my professional career, I had to lead a team right from the start. No one ever gave me any advice and I had to figure it out myself. And then mid twenty s, I received my first leadership training and realized that in comparison with the yoga teacher training, the yoga teacher training was a much better leadership training. So from then onwards, I kind of shaped my mission.
[00:02:40.120] - Speaker 2
And my mission is always to build bridges to bring the world together, like the whole world of business together or combined with the world of yoga, ancient wisdom, mental health, like whatever you want to label it. But we all know, or we both know that those principles, those tools, they're like thousands of years old, right? Like they're here, they're kind of somewhere written in our genes, in our DNA, so it's somewhere already incorporated inside of us. What we need to do is to really find a bridge to build the bridge to our inside world and then build a bridge on the outside world to really make sure to combine it. And really doing this yoga teacher training was the first impulse, and ever since I really realized, okay, I need to bring it more into the business world. I need to find another language, another way of showing things, educating people on certain topics. Because we also know that there is a lot of people out there. Whenever you start talking about mindfulness, they roll their eyes. Or like whenever you talk about meditation or yoga or whatever, they start rolling their eyes. It's something that is really already inside of you.
[00:04:07.220] - Speaker 2
Yoga doesn't mean that you have to do a split or that you have to do a headstand or whatever. It's not about that, right? It's more about how present you are, how you can really combine certain things like your body, your breath, your mind, how capable you are of doing that. And when you are able to be 100% present, for example, then of course you're a better leader because you can focus much better. You can really access your empathy levels. So it all is really interconnected. And this is my goal to just equip people with those tools and methods to make sure that they can help themselves because there is no external person or force that is going to save us, right? Like, we all have to create it ourselves. And I think it's important that we understand that we are responsible for our actions, for our thoughts, for our behavior. And the more I know about certain things, the more I'm aware, the easier I can adapt in certain situations.
[00:05:19.450] - Speaker 1
I love what you said about your yoga training being the best leadership training. Now, a lot of us might associate yoga with headstands and stretching poses, so more of a bodily thing. Could you elaborate a bit on what yoga can teach us about good leadership and being a good leader?
[00:05:37.990] - Speaker 2
So, first of all, when you step on the mat, you can set an intention, right? Like, you can set a goal. And I think this is the clarity we all need nowadays to really have a goal, to work towards, to or to thrive towards two, right? So this is the first thing. So when you set your foot on the mat, you're like, okay, why am I here? Right? There is no one else out there telling me you have to do yoga. It's not designed by law or whatever, telling you, okay, this is what you have to do, right? In a way, you do it of your own free will and it will help you to set an intention to really define, okay, what the heck am I doing here? And why did I decide to step on the mat, right? It will help you whenever you are distracted to really find your pathway back onto your mat. The second thing is a beginner's mind. What we do nowadays is ultimately the way we are taught in school is basically that we evolve every single time, every single day. But the definition for evolving within ourself is like really connected to success.
[00:06:51.640] - Speaker 2
And for most people that means the only way is up. But that's not true and we all know that that not every day is going up. There is also days when it's going down. So this happens. And we need to acknowledge and understand that every day is different and that we're human beings, we're not machines or robots. We cannot just stop that one day and the next day we start exactly where we left off. And we kind of know that on a conscious level because we talk about that, we don't really feel it, right? We still have a benchmark that is up here at eye level and every day we would like to progress and push the benchmark a little higher. But when you really allow yourself to set an intention and to step on the mat with a beginner's mind, allowing yourself to really just be present and do whatever you feel like you need to do right now and that can always be resting in shavasana or in child's pose or doing a meditation whatsoever, right? Like no one again, no one is out there telling you this is the right form. What you need right now, the only person who can decide that this is the right form is you.
[00:08:10.400] - Speaker 2
And for this you need to understand what is triggering you and really observe more. Like not judge all the time. Those are my learnings, really always intention, beginners mind and observing, moving on to.
[00:08:26.680] - Speaker 1
Another factor of leadership that you are very vocal about, which is well being. And to me, you're one of the most vocal people I know who really want to systemically change the way we approach well being as a society. What do you tell people why this is not just a checklist item or nice to have, why well being is actually such a fundamental aspect of our life that deserves more attention.
[00:08:51.290] - Speaker 2
Our brains are not made for this world. This is the simplest answer I can give. Our brains are still kind of in the Stone Age and they still have the same processes that were happening there. And when we understand and when we know okay, like back then we had a stress reaction. We were in fight or flight, but we literally had to fight or run away from a situation. And then what happened afterwards was that we were relaxing. Like really like 90% of our time we were in our parasympathetic nervous system, right? And nowadays it's really like the other way around. We're 90% active, we're 90% in our sympathetic nervous system. And if you only look at the stats if you only look at the data, then you see, okay, something is off, right? There is social media, there is our phones. Like everything is distracting us. Only time when this stops is when we say stop. Right? And we need to empower people more to understand that they need to say stop more often.
[00:10:05.410] - Speaker 1
I remember in an earlier conversation we had, you told me that you created unwind your mind because you wanted to change the way that we as a society view stress, to not view it as a status symbol or something. That just is how it is. What do you think needs to happen to change this mindset and the tendency to glorify stress and a hustle culture?
[00:10:29.130] - Speaker 2
Well, if I would have that answer, I think I would be really, really happy. The society we created, whether it's in Australia or Europe or America, north America, right? Like in most of those cultures that are oriented on a Western lifestyle, what we do is we hustle. And the pandemic was an event that happened across the globe and that really showed, hey, look, you need to dial down, like with everything because we see now that the numbers are rising, that the stats are really going through the roof. Whether it's suicidal rates or anxiety attacks, panic attacks, burnout rates, et cetera, it all goes straight up, right? And we can let that happen. Of course, I believe this is like we are really on the edge of creating another pandemic that is going into that direction because we don't have enough resources to really deal with that. What I would love to have is that more people really understand their own responsibility. Everyone has to chip in. Everyone has to give something. We need to really find ways to compromise a little bit more in order for the system change to happen. We all need to understand that we all have a certain responsibility and that only we can decide to be better role models and then inspire the younger generation.
[00:12:05.050] - Speaker 2
And I also believe that we need every generation to come together and understand, okay, look, our external world has changed so fast. We now need to find ways to really adapt to it, to kind of create a balance. What I observe, unfortunately, is that now that everything is over, that all the regulations are gone, people just go back to pre COVID. And I don't think this is wise. We need to use really the opportunity we have to be self aware and then start from there. Really understand, okay, yeah, we are collective, and as a collective, we can change certain things. But the only thing that we can change is our own behavior. So then going back to the individual level, kind of understand, okay, as a collective, we're one community, we're one society, and we kind of need to do something for one another. But I can only change it with my own behavior. I know that sounds all very abstract, but I think this is the only way to go. But this is hurried. Change is hard. No one likes change, et cetera. And I'm aware of that too. And this is why I don't really have a simple answer to your question, but I think this is the way we would need to go.
[00:13:34.240] - Speaker 2
And this is why I think we need to really educate ourselves more. And I think this is another thing most people try to neglect because they don't see that happening, right? But studies show that stress now can impact our lives in a couple of decades in the future. And we see that more people are suffering from heart attacks, diabetes, et cetera, et cetera. And this is because we created a lifestyle that is hard to deal with. And only because we don't have the results or face the results right now, doesn't mean they're not there to move.
[00:14:13.300] - Speaker 1
Into a bit more of a practical example. What do you think employers and companies today need to do to ensure their people's well being? And how can they empower their employees to take care of their own well being?
[00:14:27.510] - Speaker 2
The simplest answer is create a transparent communication culture. We as human beings are like, yes, we are so much better than animals, we're better than anyone else there, we're so much more intelligent, but we don't use it. We can communicate in different languages with our buddies as well. Really? In different languages, like English, German, whatever, but we don't use it very well. There are so many people that really miss the skill of communicating well. And when you look into the workplace, there is so much in transparency, there is so much implicit knowledge that we fail to make explicit because people think, well, that's normal. Everyone knows how we communicate, but everyone knows what values we have. But is that true? If you wake up a person in the middle of the night, can this person tell you what kind of values you have or not? And this is where everyone, I think, should start. It's not about having mental health apps or like a therapist, et cetera. That's so nice to have, and I really admire companies investing money in that. But I think what is more important is really create processes where everyone has clarity.
[00:15:53.990] - Speaker 2
Like the intention, remember from the yoga mat, where everyone has clarity, where everyone is able to really come with a beginner's mind and not judge all the time, but observe more. And when we bring that into the workplace, then I think we're off to get started. But most of the time we don't do that. We don't show that we're vulnerable, because who shows emotion in the workplace, right? Like, who does that? That's still that all behavior, that all image we have in our minds, which is completely false. I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of false and right and whatever, because I'm aware that this is also a subjective way of looking at things, but this is really false. We're human beings. We're one person with emotions, with everything. And we need to bring that. We need to bring it all into the workplace as well. We can't really be a different person, an entirely different person, I believe.
[00:16:55.430] - Speaker 1
I love what you said about bringing your full self to work. We hear the word authenticity more and more now, especially with the hybrid work environment and private and work life blending more. What are your views on bringing your authentic self to work with your values, with your boundaries? And how can individuals go about that who might still be a bit hesitant about showing this side of themselves in a professional work setting?
[00:17:26.270] - Speaker 2
I think what is again really important is to really start with yourself. Learn about yourself, get to know yourself, know your triggers, know your boundaries, know your values, know how you define yourself worth, et cetera. Once you know that, I think it's a really good compass that you created, and then you can bring that into the workplace as well. That doesn't mean that you are only allowed to bring your whole self to work once you realize that you can fill all those questions. Probably. But I think this is a really good starting point. Again, most really try to change everything within teams, organizations, and they always look on the outside. They're always focused on what is happening externally. But again, we can only change ourselves. It doesn't matter what my team would say or it doesn't matter what my former manager would say, because in the end, they can only give me feedback and how they perceive me. But what I do with that feedback is really only up to me. So this is really your starting point as an individual. Figure out who you are, but don't really have that big question. Okay. Who am I?
[00:18:53.450] - Speaker 2
Don't expect this to be easy. Maybe you can. I haven't met anyone yet. But to really answer that within a day, it takes a little time and that's okay. I mean, in the end, life is a journey, right? It's a summary of different experiences. It's not a path that is already created. That's the beauty of it. Yeah, we can create it ourselves every single time of queries. We need to understand that a system change has to happen because again, everything has changed. We all love the benefits of social media or technology, but we kind of fail at recognizing that it also comes with a certain responsibility. It's nice to be connected all the time, but it also means that we have to set boundaries, that we have to set standards for ourselves. Because again, our brain isn't made for that particular type of technology. And I think this is really important. Yes, there is benefits, but there is also responsibilities. And that's the balance I was talking about. Right. And I think this is always what we do, the compromises. Also we have to create when we're building bridges, it will never happen that you can only get the good things out of things, right?
[00:20:13.350] - Speaker 2
So I think we know and are aware of those concepts. We now just have to kind of bring it to the streets and really use it in a way. But yeah, to answer your question, if you start with yourself, that's a good starting point. And then once you know but it's important to me that I speak up for everyone that is kind of not really heard in the workplace, then that's good, right? But it won't do you any good if that's not part of your value. And if you're only interested in making a career, for example, then of course it would bring you into a disbalance. And if, if someone gives you the project, for example, to speak up for others, maybe being part of a works council or whatever, that's simply not in your nature because it's not part of your values. And I don't say this is bad because again, everyone is an individual and I embrace diversity. I think diversity is what makes us strong, and we have to understand that diversity also means that we're not the same and that there are people out there who are more money driven, more career driven, and that is okay, because we need those people as well to really kind of push or pull ourselves in a certain direction.
[00:21:30.500] - Speaker 2
So I think it's really not okay if we judge all the time. We really need to observe a little bit more and understand, okay, only because this person is going into that direction. It has nothing to do with myself. And this is also the blending part maybe is also to understand nowadays our jobs don't end at six. I cannot shut up my brain. That's not how it works. Whenever I'm still on any social media app or whatever, I still think about that. I don't think this concept is still appropriate yet. It's maybe more appropriate in a blue collar range where you still have, okay, now we need to, I don't know, do this process from nine to eleven, et cetera. I think you know what I mean. So this is a different thing. Like if you do something with your hands, right, you can plan that better. But this is again also the reality we have and what we mean when we say that our external world has changed so much because most of our work environment is still coming from like early 19 hundreds, right? Because it was part of the industrialization, it was part of the manual work we were doing.
[00:22:55.640] - Speaker 2
But that has changed and we have been failing to really update our software in the work environment and really do this upgrade. Also like, okay, yeah, if the tasks are not the same anymore, maybe we also need to change then the surroundings. And this is why I don't understand why people are always so neglecting this and are like, no, we don't need change. Has been working before, so will continue to work. No won't.
[00:23:30.690] - Speaker 1
If you could have one or two wishes come true, what would you hope for the future of work to come true? What would you hope for us to realize and then actually implement?
[00:23:41.360] - Speaker 2
I would hope, like, in general, not just for the workplace, but in general, I would love for people to be more curious, to be more open, to really, like, you know, instead of judging all the time, really moving more into that observation state. Observational state. And to apply more curiosity, like going away from knowing it all and more towards to, hey, why are you doing it like this? What is it you're doing? Tell me more about this. Right? And then as a result of this, create relationships that are more meaningful. Whenever I looked over to Laos, my father is from Laos, right? Like, so I have those two cultures inside of me, and when I look at them, maybe their net worth is not as high as in Germany, but the way they communicate with one another, the way they create communities, is so different. And I wonder what is more important, the money, a system that we created and that kind of supports greed and hate and anger and being annoyed by someone, et cetera. Like all those negative emotions, more than creating and building communities, communicating well with one another, having high levels of empathy.
[00:25:18.720] - Speaker 2
So, I mean, in the end, you need to decide it for yourself, really, what you want to do, where your values are. But I think, yeah, we have a privilege, but we also should use that privilege a little bit more often.
[00:25:37.630] - Speaker 1
I normally ask my podcast guests at this point if they have some parting words for our listeners. But seeing your extensive career as a strategist, consultant and coach, perhaps you have a question or an activity for our listeners.
[00:25:54.700] - Speaker 2
I would love if everyone is really integrating active listening a little bit more. So maybe not as a question, but maybe as a task. When you have another conversation with someone today, tomorrow, whenever you decide, instead of listening to respond or to react, listen to understand. And that means instead of going with your impulse and answering and providing a solution, ask a question. And ideally, you ask a question with what? Like, what else? Or what do you mean by that? Et cetera, like something into that direction so that you don't go too deep into Why? Or have you ever thought of because this is more into a close conversation, or it goes too deep straight away, that in the end, it doesn't really allow you to create a meaningful conversation. But if you ask a what question, it really helps you and also the person you're talking to, to open up, because it allows for opportunities and possibilities. So this is a task I give to every listener out there, and hopefully that helps. And really ask yourself maybe more often, why am I doing this? And if you can, maybe also try and integrate the three things from yoga observe more often, judge less, have a beginner's mindset, and set an intention, I think, that can really help you to live a more stress, less life, if that's your goal, and to deal better with your mental well being, that's a wonderful parting task.
[00:28:04.750] - Speaker 1
I love it, and one that I can confirm has a huge impact on the way that we connect with other people. It also teaches us a lot about ourselves. Thank you so much, Julia, for your time and for coming on the podcast. It was a real pleasure to talk to you.
[00:28:18.780] - Speaker 2
Thanks for having me. And I'm always happy to connect, by the way.
[00:28:24.770] - Speaker 1
Absolutely. And we'll make sure that our listeners can also find the link to your website, to your LinkedIn and everything you're doing with unwind your mind in the show notes of this episode. At this point, I also want to thank our listeners for being here today. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you want to hear more conversations on living and working well in the digital world and all the challenges and opportunities that the digital world presents us with, then make sure to subscribe to this podcast and I look forward to seeing you next time.